Do contemporary cinemas really project at 25fps?

Do contemporary cinemas really project at 25fps? - Laughing businesswoman working in office with laptop

In a conversation with a UK film professional, I was told that in order to simplify technical stuff associated with projection, all modern films are projected slightly sped up at 25fps - although they were filmed at 24fps.

I can't believe this, as I haven't experienced overly video-like motion in cinema exhibitions so much. 25fps would produce TV or video like flicker / judder / motion, as far as I am informed (compare).

Two explanations are possible:

  • No video-motion because cinemas project 3:2 pulldowns at 25fps.
  • Or the 24fps-camera-induced-shutter-flicker is preserved even at 25fps.

Somewhere else I've read that cinemas really do alter frame rate, but in a good way. Stepping up in multiples of 24, 48fps, 72fps, preserving original flicker/shutter-gaps but double-exposing frames to produce a steadier stream of light on the audience's eyes.

Any projectionists here that can confirm 25fps frame-rates in projection?

Coda: Legend has it, same is true for TV, films presented sped up - although I see 3:2 pulldowns all the time... no video-motion in films on TV, evar!



Best Answer

This is one of those interesting questions which gets more complex (and harder to answer) the more you learn about it. Unfortunately I cannot answer definitively how theater projectors work. I'll explain why I don't think that question can be answered. And I'm going to reference 100fps.com a bit.

First, I don't think the question can be answered now, because projector hardware is kinda stuck. Look at how few screens in your area converted to 3D in the past few years. Yes, most theaters likely have 1 or 2 screens capable of 3D, but the expense of converting them all just isn't supportable. Because of costs like this, most theaters are using projection methods which are likely very out of date; so even if newer/better projection methods exist, it's likely you're still seeing older methods. But this question likely couldn't be answered in the past, because of different video standards. American cinema companies developed one set of film standards, while european companies developed another. This carries into broadcast encoding technologies for TV, and pretty much every corner of video.

One great bit of discussion can be found here. It looks at the question of how the human eye perceives video images, and some of the trade-offs necessary to make movies look fluid. Note in particular this observation:

The fact is that the human eye perceives the typical cinema film motion as being fluid at about 18fps, because of its blurring.

This makes the main page at 100fps.com more relevant to the question of how cinema can get away with such low frame rates, as the main page is focused on interlacing (and image de-interlacing). Cinema blurs the images in each frame (by combining time slices) it gives the illusion of smoothness to motion.

As near as I can tell, most theaters in the US run at 24 frames per second, with 2 or 3 exposures per frame. The higher exposure rate prevents the eye from seeing the black shutter. The interlaced frames make the image look smooth. By comparison, most theaters in Europe show 25 frames per second, still with 2 or 3 exposures per frame. This low frame rate (by modern video game standards) works because the images are not crisply rendered computer images. So motion blur works to make it look better.

Some further reading: NTSC on Wikipedia, PAL on Wikipedia, Projectors:Shutter on Wikipedia, and the Flicker Fusion Threshold.




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Should I film in 24 or 25fps?

In the US, most post production facilities are set up for 23.976 or 29.98fps, so 23.976 is the best cinematic rate to shoot at for a smooth workflow. (29.98 has a slightly more realistic, \u201cTV news\u201d look, which most filmmakers don't like.) At the end of post, your film can be conformed to 24fps.

Is 25fps cinematic?

Film could be shot at 24fps, and generally was for theatrical movies, since most cinema projectors only run at that speed, but film for television was shot at 25fps.

Are modern movies still 24fps?

24fps is the standard frame rate for movies. In the era of streaming media when the line between movies and television is more blurred than ever, many television shows also use 24fps to achieve a more cinematic look.

Is 25fps good for video?

24 or 25 fps will be good for recording when someone is talking, and you want to record audio and sync it up later. It is perfect for combining visual and audio data to come up with a video. 25fps, also known as PAL, has been the most common and standard frame rate used for television in the analog or digital age.



What FRAME RATE should I film at? | 24-25-30-60-120?




More answers regarding do contemporary cinemas really project at 25fps?

Answer 2

TV presentation of movies in Europe will always run at 25fps to synchronise with the TV framerate (anything else would require expensive conversion or incur terrible flicker as the slightly different frame rates interfere with each other). The difference is barely noticeable (but the movie will play with a 4% shorter run time and, for a non digital soundtrack, a 4% higher pitch for sound). In the USA where TV is 30fps more complex solutions are required.

There is no good reason for a projector in a movie theatre to do this: movies are shot at 24 Hz and shown at 24 Hz, so why would they? However digital projectors have no physical limitation on the framerate they use and it would be easy to project at different rates if there was a good reason to do so. But you wouldn't see big benefits unless the rates were much faster and many of these benefits would only appear if there was more data to project (it isn't entirely obvious that projecting the same frame twice leads to observable gains, for example, and TV sets that do this from 25 or 30fps signals also cause new and sometimes annoying artefacts on the perceived image).

Some modern movie directors (I believe Peter Jackson and James Cameron are pioneering the idea) are using digital shooting at 48 fps which will look a lot better than current movies if projected at 48 fps. And, note, their choice of 48 fps not 50 fps is dictated by compatibility with the current standard of 24 fps. Presumably, none of this will matter when everything is digital, but compatibility with the existing standard will make showing old movies originally shot at 24 fps less of a problem.

Answer 3

We don't have 3:2 pulldown - the film (audio and all) is simply sped up by (25/24) or about 4 percent. Same thing that is done for Television then 2:2 pulldown is applied to convert it to interlaced TV format. At least that is how things are done in Australia.

The reason for the frame rates is a historical one, Basically it is easier to rely on the AC supply to provide a timing source than create your own. The US uses 60Hz AC supply, so it is easier for them to use multiples of 6 for their timing (hence 24, 48, 60 fps). Countries which followed the European electrical standards use 50Hz AC supply, so it is easier to use (25, 50, 100 fps) Because of this, film and television standards developed in both areas around what was easiest to display (and thus made TVs and Projectors cheapest to build).

There is also a second reason why 25fps is preferred - the light globe in the projector may have 100Hz flicker and running at 24fps would produce a noticeable variation in image brightness. 25 fps allows synchronising with the AC supply.

This would only apply to older film projectors though, as new stuff can use high-frequency drivers for the light source, as well as stepper motors and microprocessors for control, thus allowing for any frame rate you want. Digital projectors are only restricted by the response time of their base media (DLP or LCD panel) and data processing capability.

Sources: Stack Exchange - This article follows the attribution requirements of Stack Exchange and is licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0.

Images: Andrea Piacquadio, RF._.studio, Vlada Karpovich, Vlada Karpovich